tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9048575444859487507.post5429952153056803870..comments2023-09-12T10:10:57.773-04:00Comments on thinking-out-loud: Hungry for Liturgical WorshipRev. Rick Stuckwischhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10664716292792101540noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9048575444859487507.post-88270003783028914432013-04-20T12:18:00.182-04:002013-04-20T12:18:00.182-04:00Thanks for your thoughtful comments, Ryan. I thin...Thanks for your thoughtful comments, Ryan. I think you've put your finger on some important points, or least possibilities. I, too, have been struck by the work of Von Schenk, and by some of his significant insights and churchly accomplishments.<br /><br />For my part, as I've said before, I am reluctant to allow any sort of wedge or competition to come between the preaching of the Gospel and the administration of the Sacrament. I still maintain that, where the preaching is sound, the Liturgy will follow in the right direction, even if slowly. And where the preaching is consistently not what it should be, the Liturgy won't be what it should be, either. In point of fact, the preaching is a constitutive and decisive aspect of the Liturgy itself.<br /><br />The Gottesdienst gathering in Chicago this coming month (14 May) will be addressing some of these very connections and concerns between preaching and the Sacrament.Rev. Rick Stuckwischhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10664716292792101540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9048575444859487507.post-3629066351923157392013-04-19T23:28:41.051-04:002013-04-19T23:28:41.051-04:00I would say 'High Church' balances Sacrame...I would say 'High Church' balances Sacrament and Word/Preaching (for example the Gospel Procession). Traditional values preaching (and Word proclaimed) over the Sacrament, Contemporary more emotion/music balanced with emotive preaching.<br /> <br />That's why early 20th Century Missouri is Traditional and preached every Sunday but did not receive from the Altar every Sunday. In fact many of my traditionals balked at every Sunday communion preferring a service of the Word as what we are supposed to be doing each Sunday.<br /><br />This article was helpful to me to see that Von Schenk et al. were instrumenting a sacramental revival in Missouri in the early 20th C. ...and why Von Schenk despised other liturgically minded since perhaps they were about aesthetics or repristination at best without comprehending the sacramental core. (though Von Schenk was interested strongly in aesthetics - worship in the beauty of holiness especially being surrounded by ugliness in New York - but aesthetics never came at the expense of the Sacrament)<br /><br />This may also explain the Lutheran liberal high church leanings of the mid-century to current era. That though they have emptied the Word of authority and are Gospel Reductionists, the Sacrament is, as Luther put it, pure Gospel, thus even for a GR, the sacramental character of liturgy for maintains its draw.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03721144375006116390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9048575444859487507.post-8314852051870569712013-04-19T23:23:40.115-04:002013-04-19T23:23:40.115-04:00I agree that the terminology is a bit confusing, a...I agree that the terminology is a bit confusing, and difficult to define. That was one of the biggest things that I struggled with in preparing for the conference, and in trying to decide how to approach my paper. I'm not a big fan of any of these terms, actually, especially because they've taken on a good deal of "baggage" along the way. I don't mind being identified as "high church," although I don't typically think of myself in that way. It's rather more of an Anglican term than a Lutheran one, and, in my experience, people tend to use the term pejoratively.<br /><br />I understand your distinction between emphasizing preaching, on the one hand, and the Sacraments on the other hand. For my part, I aim to avoid any sense of competition between the Word and Sacraments. I liked very much what Pastor Bryan Wolfmueller said during the panel discussion: that preaching is "sacramental," and the Sacraments are another kind of "preaching." My own way of saying this, usually, is that preaching is always leading to the Sacrament, and that the administration and celebration of the Sacrament always includes the preaching of the Gospel of Christ.Rev. Rick Stuckwischhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10664716292792101540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9048575444859487507.post-89524215270202955342013-04-19T23:14:14.207-04:002013-04-19T23:14:14.207-04:00might not consider themselves high church...might not consider themselves high church...Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12385670769161316292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9048575444859487507.post-30377472883145103762013-04-19T23:13:16.929-04:002013-04-19T23:13:16.929-04:00You know, I don't think that the conference di...You know, I don't think that the conference did a very good job of defining the terms, especially traditional vs. high church. I think any number of people would have resonated with your paper and might consider themselves to be "high church."<br /><br />As the conference presented it, traditional worship values preaching and high church values the sacraments. But, I'm not certain that's an accurate definition.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12385670769161316292noreply@blogger.com