tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9048575444859487507.post2392857946513377112..comments2023-09-12T10:10:57.773-04:00Comments on thinking-out-loud: Guide Me, O Thou Great RedeemerRev. Rick Stuckwischhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10664716292792101540noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9048575444859487507.post-74247622326226592442008-10-21T15:32:00.000-04:002008-10-21T15:32:00.000-04:00Thanks for you observation and good question, Past...Thanks for you observation and good question, Pastor Palm.<BR/><BR/>Who could not have great respect for Sasse? Surely we owe him a debt of gratitude for his faithful confession and tireless efforts on behalf of the Lutheran Church. On this point, however, I would have to disagree with him to some extent. Not with respect to his concern for the doctrine of justification; surely that is fundamental and definitive. But he seems to speak too much from his own personal experience, and so he evaluates "High Churchmen" on the basis of those particular men he has encountered.<BR/><BR/>A Lutheran does not evaluate the orthodoxy or faithfulness of a pastor or a congregation on the basis of how few or many ceremonies are used. Where the doctrine is right, not only on paper but in preaching and practice, there the rites and ceremonies of the Church are taken up (whether in whole or in part, whether simply or elaborately) as a confession of the Word of God in Christ. Where the doctrine is not right, that is, to be more specific, where the preaching and teaching are off the mark (whether false or foolish), there no amount of ceremony, be it little or a lot, will rescue the ship. The faithful practice of the Liturgy (which is not yet to speak of the number of ceremonies) will help to carry the day and sustain the confession of the faith when a sermon now and then is lacking; but the Liturgy will hardly survive, nor will it be able to save the church, apart from the steady preaching of the Gospel.<BR/><BR/>Really, I'm not a fan of this "high church" terminology. It is too ambiguous, too confusing, and has too much baggage attached to it. On the other hand, one can hardly avoid it; and since it is often leveled at my friends as a pejorative, I'm inclinded to take it up positively and defend it. If it describes nothing more nor less than a lot of elaborate rites and ceremonies, it isn't very useful; and by itself, it doesn't really say anything of decisive importance. There are so many factors that come into play, in determining what may be done and how it should be done. Among other things, that is one of the reasons that we should not condemn one another on the basis of ceremony.<BR/><BR/>In my experience, it is not the so-called "liturgical nazis" (sic) who criticize other pastors and congregations for their number of ceremonies. These men are not inclined to question a lack of ceremony, but they do question the replacing of the Church's orthodox traditions with idiosyncratic and faddish novelties. By contrast, there are many who will criticize the use of ceremonies, as though they were inherently contrary to the Gospel. Such critics are the real "liturgical nazis," when they presume to wrest away the freedom of faith to receive and use what God has not forbidden, and when they insist upon a stylistic kind of practice and approach that God has not commanded. There seems to be a rampant inability to discern the difference between that which is fundamental and that which is free. I'm not laying that at Sasse's feet, please understand, but I think his critique of the "High Churchmen" he knew lends itself to an erroneous criteria.<BR/><BR/>If we are going to speak of someone as "high church," I would rather use this terminology to describe an attitude as opposed to a particular measure of outward practice. That is to say, the attitude of reverence and courtesy, which thinks very highly of the Church as the body and bride of Christ our Lord, and which takes seriously the presence of God in the Divine Service. Such reverence will demonstrate itself differently in one place or another, whether in simplicity or in elaborate ceremony. It will proceed in humility and the fear of God, either way.<BR/><BR/>Justification by grace through faith is foundational and central, such that everything else hinges and depends upon that declared and imputed righteousness of Christ. That justification does not exist merely in theory or in rhetoric, but it lives in the preaching of the Gospel, in the administration of the Sacraments, in the absolving of sinners. To approach worship apart from justification is to get things very badly. But to approach "justification" apart from the Liturgy (that is to say, apart from the Ministry of the Gospel in the Divine Service of preaching and the Sacrament) is to forego the justification of Christ for the self-righteousness of man. More or less ceremony will neither make nor break the situation. But at it's best, and rightly used (where circumstance permits), the ceremony will help to confess the righteousness of faith in the Gospel.Rev. Rick Stuckwischhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10664716292792101540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9048575444859487507.post-27797557948426468262008-10-21T14:33:00.000-04:002008-10-21T14:33:00.000-04:00Nicely put, Sandra. I appreciate both of your poi...Nicely put, Sandra. I appreciate both of your points, and I really like the way you have phrased these observations. "Belonging to one body" and "generous in love," as a consequence of participating in the one body of Christ. Just as St. Paul writes to the Church in Corinth.Rev. Rick Stuckwischhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10664716292792101540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9048575444859487507.post-73790871912310549132008-10-21T14:03:00.000-04:002008-10-21T14:03:00.000-04:00What a striking contrast to the view of high churc...What a striking contrast to the view of high church liturgy presented here:<BR/>http://cyberbrethren.typepad.com/cyberbrethren/2006/11/strange_fire_on.html<BR/>What is your take on this snippet by Sasse?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9048575444859487507.post-77869775205507540532008-10-21T13:46:00.000-04:002008-10-21T13:46:00.000-04:00the members of Redeemer are devoted and passionate...the members of Redeemer are devoted and passionately loyal; what is more, they are pious and faithful folks who demonstrate an obvious love for Christ and His Church and the Word of God...<BR/><BR/><BR/>Not surprisingly, my observations have been more from this lay angle - specifically how the folks at Redeemer relate to one another. What has struck me is that they seem more connected to the church and to each other than is typical. The people from Redeemer whom I've had contact with don't seem like people who all happen to go to the same church, but like people who belong to the same body.<BR/><BR/>The ceremonies do reflect the richness of the Gospel and the reverence for the Divine things. And they celebrate the Holy Communion ALL THE TIME - like we do at Emmaus. I think that teaches people to be generous in love.organistsandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16127502429931791166noreply@blogger.com